Razzmatazz

A Word Against Grinding/Safe Hacking

34 posts in this topic

The changelog indicates that door lock grinding and safe hacking will be introduced in 1.0.4. Assuming the implementation is similar to the mods added on Exile servers currently out in the wild, this is a bad idea.

Regarding grinding, there are already two ways to get through locked doors: breaching charges and thermal scanners. With grinders, it won't matter if you went to the trouble of reinforcing your doors to metal or concrete, someone can just grind through the locks. Grinding punishes you for having doors. That encourages players to put solid walls in front of their doors when they're not online, stacking an absurd series of doors, and other such things to guard against grinding attacks.

The most common reason for adding safe hacking is that "breaching bases doesn't get you anything because everyone keeps their gear securely in safes." But that completely ignores the fact that thermal scanners are a thing. If you have the patience to stake out your target and collect some codes, it's actually quite easy to rob someone blind. However, none of that patience is necessary with the combination of grinders and safe hacking. One very important aspect of  thermal scanners is that the target and the thief must be online at or near the same time. With lock grinding and safe hacking, it's not necessary for the breaching party to know whose base they're breaching or for the victim(s) to have been online at any point recently. That's a pretty important distinction, and helps keep the power imbalance from becoming too pronounced for groups that spend a ton of time in the game and groups that play less frequently.

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Would it be possible however for the Exile team to adjust how long it takes to grind the lock depending on what level of door it is?  Wood vs reinforced vs concrete?  That could help to negate the point on the charges being made pointless. Also, if they make grinding a concrete door take FOREVER then it would be quicker to just breach the wall to get inside.

The safe hacking thing I totally agree on if the implementation is similar to what is already out there... but it may well be very different. Thermal scanners are there for a reason and don't seem to be used enough by the players. Maybe people don't know how to use them? Maybe they are too rare?

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Each server owner will be able to decide whether to switch this feature on or off. 

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Thanks @BaroN for the clarification. Am looking forward to seeing how it is implemented in the base mod....

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If lock grinding takes longer than breaching charges but costs less, then it will still be embraced by groups with an excess of time. If it takes longer and costs more, then what's the point of adding it? Also, in the implementations I've seen, grinding can be sped up be having multiple people grind at the same time. A similar implementation would greatly favor large groups who play frequently.

BaroN, yes, thanks for that clarification. Since most servers go with the default Exile settings, how about making lock grinding and safe hacking off by default? That way, they can easily be turned on by the servers that want to, but it's not part of the game by default.

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The current two methods of breaching seem well-balanced. 

Breaching charges require a large amount of resources, a group to provide cover, and generally draw in players from the surrounding area, resulting in large firefights.  This is a risk/reward that needs to be weighed before undertaking; not only are you putting yourself at risk in carrying a large amount of charges that are expensive and costly to build, you run the risk of finally breaching a wall only to be sniped by a curious nearby player to lose all of your effort and spoils.  This type of raiding influences player interaction, which is one of the key focal points to Exile.

Thermal scanners go the opposite direction, and favor smaller, covert groups who can use finesse and patience to figure out codes.  The risk involved here is alerting your mark, at which point you are either shot and lose your valuable thermal scanner, or your target figures out what you are up to and changes his or her codes, resulting in starting over from scratch.  Because your target needs to be on for the scanner to work, this method also creates real interaction and tension; this type of gameplay is unique to Exile and has been unmatched in anything else I have played.

Grinders, at least in the way they have been implemented as add-ons on servers, don't influence any player interaction.  This type of gameplay actually encourages offline raiding with little to no risk for the raiders.  The only real way to prevent a grinder raid is to stack up loads of doors, or not use doors entirely, which to me is outside of the spirit of the game.  Given that two completely different yet equally effective methods of raiding exist, I'm not sure what a third (easy) default method brings. 

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Seconded having the new changes be disabled by default if implemented.

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Such as ExAd is set up right now, the devs have been working hard to ensure that the same and if not, similar, configs will be available as well as options to turn them off completely. This goes for Hacking, Grinding and Virtual Garage. The devs have been asking us our opinions on these new features on the Exile Discord in our Exile Groupies chat. They have been working very hard and know what players and server owners want and don't want. 

They know all the pros and cons to everything they are adding as we have informed them of everything they need to know. So fear not! For every Exile server out there is different and not every server will utilize the new features :P
 

Stay frosty! :) 

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Gotcha - seems like it's been discussed with some of the larger communities.

 

Surely you'd understand though how the smaller groups/individual players who aren't privy to your discussions with the devs would want a chance to voice their concerns as well!

 

I'm just glad we're able to have a dialogue about it since we all spend so much of our lives in game 9_9

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4 hours ago, Lamby26 said:

 Thermal scanners go the opposite direction, and favor smaller, covert groups who can use finesse and patience to figure out codes.  The risk involved here is alerting your mark, at which point you are either shot and lose your valuable thermal scanner, or your target figures out what you are up to and changes his or her codes, resulting in starting over from scratch.  Because your target needs to be on for the scanner to work, this method also creates real interaction and tension; this type of gameplay is unique to Exile and has been unmatched in anything else I have played.

This isn't totally accurate... In vanilla exile thermal scanners just require the lock to have been used within the last 15 minutes to pick up the heat signature. Some servers have altered the timing though like we have it changed to 30 minutes. 

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